Rimshot depth


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mercury
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:50 pm

Rimshot depth

Postby mercury » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:47 am

I see that the mk2.9 recognizes rim-shots and cross-stick. Is it also able to recognize the depth of a rim shot? In other words, as well as outputting a different note number for a rim-shot sound can controller info also be sent representing the strike position enabling the mapping of various deep to shallow samples or a filter applied? This has been employed to some effect on the new Roland mesh pads with theTD30 module but this could be so much more accurate on the mandala.

mandrake717
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: Rimshot depth

Postby mandrake717 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:57 am

With the Mandala mk2.9 you get a MIDI note (E3) with velocity if you strike the rim and a note (F3) if the surface is pressed while you strike the rim. You also get a MIDI continuous controller value of 127 for those hits because you are all the way to the outer limit of the position sensitive surface.

The position MIDI controller output range starts from 0 at the center and increments about every millimeter from the center spot up to a value of 127 at the outer edge where the rim is. The rim and Xstick put out a 127 from there on.

mercury
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:50 pm

Re: Rimshot depth

Postby mercury » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:50 pm

Thanks Mandrake, If I understand correctly this is because the current FSR sensor can only register one impact at a time so in this case the rim position gets the hit and because it is right out at the edge it also generates the full 127 value for the controller data.

Looking at the manual again I think I may have assumed a different definition for "rim shot". Just so we are on the same page I have always understood a rim shot to be where the rim is struck at exactly the same time as the drum head giving a sometimes louder or more "gun shot" like sound. The combination of velocity and the position of the drumstick tip would alter the fullness of the sound. Typically this would be used to best effect when you wanted a more pronounced or nuanced accent.

According to the manual the Mandala currently exposes the following zones: Center, Mid-In, Mid-Out, Edge, Rim and Xstick.
The "Edge" seem to be the outer most zone not triggered by the rim but still inside the main playing surface (head). If that just leaves "Rim" and "Xstick" it would suggest that my definition of rim shot may not trigger unless this is also covered by the Xstick method where the simultaneous tip strike would been seen as pressure.

My big question is can the Mandala detect rim, rim-shot and cross-stick independently?

Not being able to calculate rim-shot depth is a pity as this would add a great deal of additional "acoustic" control.
I think Amy Knoles' comments are relevant here; “it doesn’t have to be a sound you’ve heard before, but it needs to have the same characteristics as an acoustic instrument.”

If this can't be resolved with software then a modified sensor would be required that contained an additional, independent FSR zone dedicated to the rim so that simultaneous strikes could be registered along with retaining the head position data. That would be a mk3 that I would really like to have but I'd imagine this would be both a sensor and logic board upgrade.