Utility app only showing one mandala at a time

[kruptoszard]

Hey all,

Ive been having an issue with the utility app. I can see one of my mandalas in the device selector but not the other. I've confirmed that the devices are both showing up in windows device manager properly. But for whatever reason the utility app is only showing one of them.

When I mess around with unplugging and replugging the usb cables I can get the other to show up, but most of the time I can only see one of them, not both at the same time.
This happens in both firefox and chrome.

Ive tried using different usb ports (all directly into my PCs motherboard), but it doesn't seem to affect anything.

Any ideas what is causing this?

[admin]

Are both your pads showing up in Device Manager under Sound, video, & game controllers (as Mandala_V3_####), and also in there under Universal Serial Bus controllers (labeled as USB Composite Devices)?

Also, which version of Windows are you running, and do you get the same results with Edge?

[kruptoszard]

- Both pads are showing separately in device manager as mandala V3 1018 and 1021 under sound/video/game controllers. And also under USB controllers (USB composite devices), I checked the device details on those to confirm.

- Win 10 Pro, 22H2, OS build 19045.5854

- Same deal in all browsers, including edge

On a sidenote, not sure if it's related, but in Ableton I can select both devices but the naming is not consistent with the device manager.
In Ableton they are called Mandala V3 1018 and Mandala V3 1018 #2.
It's like there is some confusion going on because they are seen as the same device or something?
Although everything still works as it should as separate devices MIDI-wise.
Again, not sure if this is actually related.

[admin]

Windows 10 and Windows 11 both support multiple USB MIDI Devices which have the same firmware Vendor ID and Product ID but unique firmware Serial Numbers such as multiple Mandala V3 pads. That is why Device Manager shows them as expected. However, Windows 10 uses WinMM API under the hood for WebMIDI whereas Windows 11 improved on that and uses the new Universal MIDI API under the hood instead, so this issue wouldn't be happening in Windows 11. Since there haven't been any other reports of the Utility not seeing all connected Mandalas, and since not all PC hardware architectures handle USB the same way, the next step might be for you to try the following steps to see what results you get:

- Connect one device and wait for the PC and Utility to recognize it
- Disconnect that device
- Connect the second device
- Disconnect that device
- Connect a powered USB hub
- Connect the first device to the hub
- Connect the second device to the hub
- Refresh the Utility page in the browser

Regarding Ableton Live, they started addressing support of multiple USB MIDI Devices which have the same firmware Vendor ID and Product ID but unique firmware Serial Numbers (such as multiple Mandala V3 pads) just recently (12.1.10b1 Release Notes: Bugfixes 12/18/2024 https://www.ableton.com/en/release-notes/live-12-beta/). It seems they fully corrected the issue on Mac, and on Windows they corrected it to the point of input from multiple devices being recognized independently but the names being numbered as you noted.

[kruptoszard]

Thanks for your help.

I tried your recipe above (with a powered hub) and it did not work on the first try.
I did manage to get both of them to show up after trying the full instructions again, but I can actually only access one of them in the utility. (the green loading light keeps blinking when I try to connect to the other one)
Upon system reboot, the problems persist and I have to try again.

Any further suggestions appreciated.

In the end I can at least still configure them separately and just be done with it, it's just unfortunate .

[admin]

Have you tried 'Uninstall Device' for both units in Device Manager and then reconnecting them so the built-in Win10 class-compliant USB MIDI device drivers load again? Windows 10 is notorious for not getting along with standard class-compliant USB MIDI controllers, but it can also be related to (or in conjunction with) the hardware ports on your particular machine and that's why testing with and without a powered USB hub is important, including sometimes one device through a hub and one not. Also take a look in Device Manager under View>Show hidden devices to see if there are any clues there. We haven't had any reports of this issue except in your case so it's a tough one to diagnose remotely.

[JLeBlanc115]

Hi,
I am also seeing this issue. I'm willing to help test diagnosis if you want to solve it.

I'm running Windows 10 Home
Version 10.0.19045 Build 19045

I'm using this powered USB hub. Main connector to the computer is USB B (hub) to USB A (Laptop):
https://plugable.com/products/usb3-hub7c

Laptop model: ASUS Rog Zephyrus G15
CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900HS (I think this particular chip has some trouble with flashing midi firmware or something, I can't remember).

I see all the mandala pads show up in device manager:

MandalaDeviceManager.jpg (117.5 KiB) Viewed 3007 times

I only see 2 in the Utility Web App:

MandalaUtility.jpg (186.08 KiB) Viewed 3007 times

And in my DAW, Reaper, I see all 4 named the same name:

MandalaReaperMidiDevices.jpg (162.78 KiB) Viewed 3007 times

I'm thinking I might have to upgrade to Windows 11 soon anyway... Where it seems like things are better.

But if you want a helper to diagnose this for Windows 10 users let me know before I decide to upgrade. I'm up for helping with some back and forth.

[admin]

You could try disconnecting your pads and then using USBDeview to uninstall all inactive entries for your Mandalas and then rebooting to force Windows 10 to create new clean entries for each pad.

There's also the possibility that it could be related to exactly which USB ports the pads are connected to on the powered hub and which USB port the hub is connected to on the computer.

Small unrelated note, you can disable any instances of Mandalas as 'MIDI Outputs' in Reaper. There wouldn't be any time that they need to be hit with MIDI from the DAW. It wouldn't affect the pads but it's probably better to keep things running lean by disabling them as MIDI Output devices.